askalsu: Where facts are hidden.

22/08/2015

Where facts are hidden.

What are facts? Proven perceptions or imaginary means of survival?

Intentions are intensive in its nature, when hidden are subliminal while susceptible to circumstances. To deduct useful information from an event is easy, try enforcing that from emotions.

Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie

December 16, 2012 · BlackBerry Smartphones App

Why are facts always hidden? Why is it so hard to get to the truths?

Jacqueline B Phillips likes this.
Jacqueline B Phillips Because people don't want to be truthful, it makes them look less than perfect.

December 16, 2012 at 3:31am · Unlike · 2
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie or maybe the public cant handle the truth?

December 16, 2012 at 10:12am · Like · 1
James Clarke ARE the facts always hidden? Maybe some people are just blind

December 16, 2012 at 12:57pm · Unlike · 2
Lew Holzman The World is the way it is. The facts are there. Evidence. People refuse to see what is there and they listen to other people rather than become educated.

December 16, 2012 at 1:08pm · Unlike · 3
Arthur Shelly Facts are knowledge, knowledge is power. The powerful and the rch got that way by always hiding and never sharing their power, their wealth.

December 16, 2012 at 3:57pm · Unlike · 1
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie @Arthur smile emoticon, Do they have a different life from you and me, are they living on mars? Knowlege is experience I would presume!

December 16, 2012 at 4:24pm · Like
Arthur Shelly No, they have the power to collect experiences from more people than you and I have. Study Amway. It's enlightening. And disgusting, considering they brought RightToWork to Michigan.

December 16, 2012 at 4:41pm · Like
Matt Joseph "The facts" may not be hidden; they can just be simply be where you (or others) are not looking.

Experience is a FORM of knowledge but not the only part.

December 16, 2012 at 4:46pm · Like
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie @Arthur Wouldn't collecting experiences be just through communication?

@Matt wouldn't experience be a way of in analogy getting burnt and healing? Ie transformation of ideas and then implementing seeing the results and collecting data! I see so many people not getting out of their comfort zones "caged by their fears" unwilling to process and reprocess events! After all life is about living, solving issues I would presume!

Would it be that most people are afraid to speak of experiences and bury their knowledge in the subconscious cos of self judgement! And more likely to communicate with attitudes to cover up facts?

December 16, 2012 at 5:01pm · Like
Matt Joseph I'm not really sure what you mean...could you clarify that?

December 16, 2012 at 5:32pm · Like
Matt Powell I don't mean to split hairs here - OK, maybe I do - but there are a few too many presumptive statements in this thread for my brain to sort through; I feel like I need a cypher just to unravel what the discussion is about.

For starters, facts are not knowledge.

December 16, 2012 at 5:48pm · Unlike · 1
Rich Weber our MASTERS killed the TRUTH 50 years ago!! they will NEVER allow the TRUTH to be told now!!

December 16, 2012 at 5:49pm · Like
Matt Joseph Of course they are. Any piece of information (whether true or false) is a part knowledge

December 16, 2012 at 5:49pm · Unlike · 1
Lew Holzman Are we asking if the government holds back important information or if corporate entities hold back important information...probably sometimes for good reasons and sometimes to protect someone, something...coverups etc.

December 16, 2012 at 5:51pm · Unlike · 1
Matt Joseph I think he means information in general

December 16, 2012 at 5:51pm · Like
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie @Matt you said: Experience is a FORM of knowledge but not the only part". i think experience is a general term used for defining information+events. cause and effect. so everyone has knowledge but its buried. the supposed rich reanalyse what happened with them or people or things and then produce stuff out as solutions and sell it to he who knows yet is blind to its reality. you know how they say everything is within you, you just have to look inward.

December 16, 2012 at 5:52pm · Like
Matt Joseph Experience and knowledge are not interchangeable.

December 16, 2012 at 5:55pm · Like · 1
Matt Powell Knowledge - (1) condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association (2) acquaintance with or understanding of a science. (3) the sum of what is known : the body of truth, information, and principles acquired by humankind.

Fact - something that has actual existence, a piece of information presented as having objective reality.

December 16, 2012 at 5:56pm · Unlike · 2
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie isnt everything a fact? once born through communication. like ideas. all it would take is a will to implement it.

December 16, 2012 at 5:58pm · Like
Matt Joseph Matt, Fair enough.

Alsu; My skin color is very dark. Look at my profile picture and you will find this is untrue thus not a fact.

December 16, 2012 at 5:59pm · Like
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie what if you saw yourself as black, after all who said black isnt white? l

December 16, 2012 at 6:01pm · Like
Matt Powell Truth is a bit more nuanced, because it can be argued that facts are truth, but that truth is not necessarily fact.
truth
1 .a archaic : fidelity, constancy
b : sincerity in action, character, and utterance
2a (1) : the state of being the case : fact (2) : the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality (3) often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality
b : a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true <truths of thermodynamics>
c : the body of true statements and propositions
3
a : the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality
b chiefly British : true 2
c : fidelity to an original or to a standard
4
capitalized Christian Science : god
— in truth
: in accordance with fact : actually

December 16, 2012 at 6:01pm · Unlike · 1
Matt Joseph My perception is not necessarily the truth

December 16, 2012 at 6:01pm · Unlike · 1
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie @Matt if your mind tells you something, that is a fact of your reality, how ever evidence could present that what you thinking isnt true because we have been told that only majority vote counts.

December 16, 2012 at 6:05pm · Like
Matt Joseph A fair point.

December 16, 2012 at 6:09pm · Unlike · 1
Matt Powell Evidence may present that what I'm thinking isn't true, but majority vote has nothing to do with it.

December 16, 2012 at 6:11pm · Like · 1
Matt Joseph Though majority vote is not necessarily the truth it does hold enormous sway in our thinking.

But let's see if we can get back on topic.

Perhaps the facts aren't hidden, perhaps they are just somewhere that has not been searched.

December 16, 2012 at 6:13pm · Like
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie depends on the circumstances that you dealing with, in cases of the mind any thought is a fact, if it can influence matter then it becomes a fact that your thoughts were true.

December 16, 2012 at 6:17pm · Like
Matt Powell We have two questions here, which I would like to deconstruct to make sure I understand what Alsu is asking.

1. Why are facts always hidden? This is a presumptive question... a fallacious assumption that makes it difficult to get on the same page. Facts are not always hidden. Facts are observable, or they wouldn't be facts - unless you want to get into whether a fact is a fact before anyone knows it... like gravity existing prior to Isaac Newton observing it and developing his brilliant and exquisite insights, or chicken/egg and tree falling in woods scenarios. My response to this first question is to seek clarification from its author, or simply to refute the premise of the question as invalid. Facts are not always hidden.

2. Why is it so hard to get to the truths? Plural... interesting. Again, is it hard to get to the truths? What, specifically, are "the truths"?

December 16, 2012 at 6:35pm · Like
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie facts are never hidden we just dont bother until we hit our heads on the wall of problems. we dont ask most times the question What if this or that, we waste time, being afraid if what came to our mind was true or not. in most cases we ask people and they say we are insane "could be a method of derailing you from where you wanted to go" yet the little voice inside hasn't gone. we sit and watch how someone else does what we were supposed to do, rather than testing and seeing the dynamic "effects" of our thoughts, collect the data and reprocess it again before presenting a final solution.

December 16, 2012 at 6:36pm · Like
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie truths are experiences. very few people will reveal them cos most are hiding behind masks of attitudes. so it takes a level of force "deception" to coerce the truth out of someone or something. everyone makes mistakes but very few are forgiving of themselves and others. which makes everyone develop defence systems. dont know if many have watched the film INCEPTION it takes effort to dig in so many layers to find the root cause of effects we see in a given society, person or thing. people can only accept the truth in small doses.

December 16, 2012 at 6:50pm · Like · 1
Matt Powell Alsu - I am intrigued by your comment - "the dynamic 'effects' of our thoughts". . .

I think the way we use language is important, and that's why I'm struggling to get on the same page with your questions. Your choice of words is unique, creative - but I wonder if what I'm hearing in your comments is what you are actually saying. I just want to sense some comfidence in myself that I understand what it is you are really asking. I am trying to reframe what you say with my own words so that I can explore the ideas you are presenting.

Are you pointing to the mystic, imaginative, intuitive, ineffable, numinous?

December 16, 2012 at 6:52pm · Unlike · 1
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie Matt i am enjoying the exploration of words. reason you may not be able to get on the same page with me is that we use different words to define what we mean. you are of a different experience than i am culturally and fact that you are a man and i am a woman. please be patient as i am also trying to connect with you.

December 16, 2012 at 7:01pm · Like
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie "the dynamic 'effects' of our thoughts". . . what i mean by this is its like the metrics, as soon as a new thought "word" "letter" "idea" "emotion" comes into the atmosphere it changes the dynamic of things. so what ever was before is now in the pages of history, what is now relevant is the new and more or different possibilities.

December 16, 2012 at 7:15pm · Like
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie history dosnt mean irrelevant it means not useful for the moment, it can be brought back as a piece of a puzzle but some try to keep it as a picture, which is why transition or change is hard for many, i am pointing at both the effects things, emotions, ideas, have on the mind and mater, that often confuses "distract" from accepting facts as truths and truths as facts. which is why things arnt hidden even if they buried.

December 16, 2012 at 7:21pm · Like
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie Why are facts always hidden? Why is it so hard to get to the truths? - if i asked the question in this manner "Why do people burry facts, and hide their truths" i wouldnt get such lovely communication we had had connecting a variety of thoughts. it would just be a plain answer "because we are afraid of being Judged or be wrong"

December 16, 2012 at 7:25pm · Like
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie @Matt "Are you pointing to the mystic, imaginative, intuitive, ineffable, numinous?" - for me this what i call "Energy" if life wasn't mysterious people wouldn't be able to handle it. hence truth is illusive as it transforms form one state into another, its what keeps us alive at least me, pealing all the layers of INCEPTION - discovering and creating truths is the very power behind the wealthy.

December 16, 2012 at 7:34pm · Like
Matt Powell "truths are experiences"
OK. Awesome! That answers my question. For this discussion, I will assume the premise that truths are experiences.

This is consistent with something very close to my heart; the core of my personal spiritual formation is what I call "experiential honesty"...

For me, there is 'a priori' knowledge, factual data, scientifically proven theories and laws, actuality - and this body of knowledge is shared, validated, vetted, updated, and complimented by peer review. Hence, this body of knowledge shifts and evolves as it is augmented by the current accepted body of scientific knowledge. Philosophy can also be included in this first category - and to some extent, psychology. In order for something to be considered "true" in this first category, it must stand up to unimpeded scrutiny and be supported by data and reasonable standards of logic and coherence.

Next, there is what I call contextual, or paradigmatic knowledge; these are truths defined by various systems of belief, widely held assumptions about some inner reality, religion, myth, various schools of mysticism and spirituality that have some formal history of shared discipleship. In order to understand this body of knowledge one must appreciate its context; in order to truly understand, to be knowledgeable of these truths, one must accept or suspend certain presumptions about reality that have no basis in factual knowledge, and which may in most cases be counter-intuitive to that body of truths in the first category of 'a priori' knowledge based on scientistic actuality. Certain aspects of Philosophy can also be included in this second category - and to some extent, psychology. In order for something to be considered "true" in this category, one must perceive it within its own context and accept, more on an intuitive level, the associated paradigm, or world view. For the critical thinker, there is a measure of "suspended disbelief" one must deal with, and some illogical assumptions may be a difficult hurdle for the diehard logician. To be a practitioner of any system of belief within this body of knowledge usually requires a measure of devotion and discipline, a commitment or submission to something ineffable, something not clearly defined or definable that is nonetheless assumed to permeate reality.

In addition to these two ways of perceiving something as "true" - there is personal truth, an intuitive way of perceiving reality which involves experience. Here is where I would incorporate your comment, "truths are experiences". This is much more difficult to talk about, because it is entirely intuitive. Here is where one incorporates all forms of "knowledge", memory, experience, creativity, imagination, intuition, et al, and develops one's own paradigm, context, world view.

December 16, 2012 at 7:48pm · Unlike · 1
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie which is why common cense isnt common and one or the other isnt insane for believing in what they choose to. how ever if facts need to be put, both could be judged as insane using standard metrics. smile emoticon

December 16, 2012 at 7:55pm · Like
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie matter can be measured, mind however can be taken to infinity and beyond, so long as the person realises he cant just up and grow real physical wings.

December 16, 2012 at 8:00pm · Like
Matt Powell I choose not to force an absolute upon something I am trying to understand... that is, I would not say this is absolutely sane while that is absolutely insane. Everything has its own individual context and exists within a broader context. This is why language matters. We give meaning to our reality and communicate that reality, as best we can, through the use of language.

December 16, 2012 at 8:01pm · Unlike · 1
Matt Powell novelty => chaos => adaptation

December 16, 2012 at 8:03pm · Unlike · 1
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie well try and figure out a woman first then add with that a Russian/Nigerian cultural background, that stays in South Africa, then add her experiences traveling the world as a mulato then you will see the "novelty" that has created the "chaos" through trying to "adapt" to the world hahahahahahahaha. i would presume your experiences are just as wealthy given that we got to this point of understanding.

December 16, 2012 at 8:09pm · Like · 1
Matt Powell ... just a couple pilgrims passing through smile emoticon

December 16, 2012 at 9:07pm · Unlike · 1
Matt Powell Alsu - I am still intrigued by your comment - "the dynamic 'effects' of our thoughts". . . very intrigued.

December 16, 2012 at 9:08pm · Like
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie oh i thought i did try breaking it down, guess you may not have seen it smile emoticon "the dynamic 'effects' of our thoughts". . . what i mean by this is, its like the metrics, as soon as a new "word" "letter" "idea" "emotion" "person" comes into the atmosphere it changes the dynamic of things. so what ever was before is now in the pages of history, what is now relevant is the new and more or different possibilities. Ripple effect.

December 16, 2012 at 9:14pm · Like · 1
Matt Powell As I said before - "novelty => chaos => adaptation"

As organisms within a system, we are constantly organizing ourselves individually and collectively. Organization is an ongoing function of the organisms themselves. Every organism provides and receives feedback to and from every other organism at all times in a dynamic manner. This is why I believe it matters what one thinks, how one thinks, how one communicates and how one responds to life as it is happening. . . now.

December 16, 2012 at 9:25pm · Unlike · 1
Alsu Ekinadose Odemwingie the problem is that many dont practice throwing the stones of change properly, and manage the ripple effects. Patience and varying communication channels.

December 16, 2012 at 9:31pm · Like

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